Episode 21 - Redemptive Technology in Southeast Asia with Chris Yeo

Technology has the power to shape values and economies. But how are Christ-followers stewarding their capital and ventures for the kingdom?

Chris Yeo is addressing this question as the Co-Founder of Digital Mission Ventures, an accelerator program that invests in early stage, Christ-following tech entrepreneurs in South East Asia.  

As the CEO of DOKU and former Head of Grab Ventures, Chris has seen the influence innovation can have in the region. At Digital Mission Ventures, he partners with Praxis Labs to disciple business innovators and help them think about the redemptive edge of their companies. 

Chris joins the show with special co-host Pastor Benny Ho to talk about how tech entrepreneurs in Asia can use their businesses to love and serve those around them.

Episode Transcript

Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it.

Wen Li Lim: Welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. Today I'm super excited. Unfortunately, Henry isn't co-hosting with me, but I have a very, very close friend out here in Asia, Pastor Benny Ho. Welcome to the show as my co-host.

Pastor Benny Ho: Thank you Wen, thank you for having me.

Wen Li Lim: No problems. So. PB So I'm going to refer to him as PB, I can't call him the full, Pastor Benny. PB and I have known each other for a long, long time, I think 20 years. So the connection goes back to Perth. PB Tell me, tell us a little bit about your journey to Perth and just what you're doing out there, just quickly. Yeah.

Pastor Benny Ho: Yeah, well, I was pastoring in Singapore very happy really, since the Lord's call to come to Perth. And actually the reason being that in that was in the late 1900s when Singapore was just experiencing newfound wealth and I as a disciple making Bible teaching kind of pastor, I really wanted to spend time with people. But at that time, Singapore, because of its newfound wealth, was really experiencing a lot of a lot of things that were more to do with upgrading. And by the way, that was when the Five Cs of Singapore were coinned and.

Wen Li Lim: What are the five Cs for our listeners who do not know.

Pastor Benny Ho: Well you know condominiums, credit cards, country clubs. I don't know. The other two I forgot and what is the other two, what would it be? Car pass. Yeah, yeah, something like that. And people were just so caught up in that. And even if I had time for them, they don't have time for me. And that was when I was invited to Perth just to be a guest speaker for some camps and seminars. And, and there I found a lot of students, international students that had a lot of time. And so I really enjoyed that. And when the Lord opened the door for me to be there, I thought, Yep, I'm going to go there and do some serious disciple making, and that's what I'm here for.

Wen Li Lim: Yeah. So you've been based there in Perth for the last 20 odd years? Yes. Yeah, Yeah. And I mean, I think for the people in Singapore, I think a lot of people in Singapore and Malaysia have seen him guest speaking at camps, church camps and all that. So you do fly back and forth. But anyway, it's really great to be doing this with you and you thank you for PB in church.

Pastor Benny Ho: We miss you and we miss you.

Wen Li Lim: Oh, thank you. But now I'm going to bring in our guest for today. Chris, you're welcome to the show.

Chris Yeo: Hi, everyone. Hi Wen, Hi PB.

Pastor Benny Ho: Good to see you

Wen Li Lim: So. Chris, you co-founded Digital Mission Ventures, but he's been in the tech scene for a long time. So, Chris, do you want to do kind of a quick intro on yourself?

Chris Yeo: Sure. Well, first of all, I am of course, I go to Edinburgh Presbyterian Church. I've been going there for 15, 20 years. I'm married with five beautiful children, four sons and one daughter.

Wen Li Lim: And triplets. You have triplets in the mix?

Chris Yeo: Yes, I've got triplet boys. And the boys are the first. I've got four boys, one girl. The triplets are 16 this year. And which means they are taking their O-level exams, which is a big deal in Singapore. So it's a really interesting time in my household these days.

Wen Li Lim: Yeah. For those who don't know about exams and in Singapore, it's basically everyone goes on leave, my parents got an exam leave and yeah it's quite of it's quite a big thing in here. Actually just this week Chris and I were both in KL and we connected with one of our previous podcast guests as well. So now that regional travel is open, it's been just really great to meet people face to face. But why don't we dive into the episode? So Chris, you've been deeply involved in the tech space across South East Asia. What is it about this space and in this particular context that you believe that we can make such a difference in this area?

Chris Yeo: Yeah, So so I think I think God has always been using technology for his purposes, and that's throughout history. And one example that I always like to talk about is the Gutenberg Bible. Of course, that was created first by the movable type printing press in the 1450s. And, you know, this seems like old tech to date, right? But during that time, it was such a huge disruption. Right. Disrupting, you know, the the market for handwritten notes and enabling the mass production, of course, for the Bible. Right. And fast forward, today . Tech is even more embedded into almost every single aspect of our lives. We use technology for everything. At home, at work, at play. People aspire to join tech companies. They want to launch their own startups. They want to become like the next Jeff Bezos or the next Steve Jobs. A tweet from Elon Musk moves markets so they're all larger than life personalities. And yet the example set by many of these tech companies and founders are perhaps leaves some things to be desired. And we believe that some of this can be change and to do God's work. So that's why we believe that tech has such a big role to play in the work of God on earth.

Wen Li Lim: And I guess entrepreneurship is very much also about solving the problems and serving the people. Really, at the end of the day, it's about people by serving the pain points. You know, if you have a solution that there's no pain points and there's no need for, you may not start. And what do you think are the kind of pain points that tech can solve for the people in Southeast Asia?

Chris Yeo: I think this there's so there's so many pain points that that can be solved. You know, Southeast Asia is is a region, a diverse region of 680 million people. You know, and I focus on on fintech. And from that angle, you know, we see six in ten people in Southeast Asia. They are there underbanked or unbanked. And that means that in Indonesia alone you've got. Over 180 million people were underbanked unbanked. Conversely, the mobile penetration rate in Indonesia is 133%. And yet credit card penetration is 6%. So one [......] is six. So what happens then? The result is massive innovation in fintech. The result is leapfrogging in consumer behavior. The result is, for example, QR codes are naturally the first form factor that's used for digital payments offline and instead of cards. And we see similar things happening all over developing countries in Southeast Asia. What is in fintech in agritech? Well, things like that. So that's why. There's so many pain points that that remain to be solved for Southeast Asia.

Wen Li Lim: And I guess, you know, we've seen that even in places like China where technology comes in and they leapfrog. So from basically having like cash and they had that missing middle and then they leapfrog. So I guess there's a lot of opportunities out here to really lift up and seeing human flourishing within the communities in Southeast Asia through technology and actually skipping the steps, which is to me really, really exciting and they can really catch up in terms of access. You know, a lot of times we're talking about access to education, access to health care and tech and tech being an enabler to get them there given the mobile phone penetration rates in Indonesia. I mean, it doesn't mean most people have I mean, a lot of people have two phones or some people have three phones. Is that how it works out there?

Chris Yeo: Yeah. Mean, many people have two physical phones or they have multiple SIM cards. So you got it. All right. So. So this one mobile penetration is more than 100%. Hmm. Yeah.

Wen Li Lim: Well, I mean, you've worked at places, and currently you're at DOKU and you've worked at Grab, and you've you've seen God work through your career and as a faith driven business leader, how is it like seeing God works through you and in your life in these large organizations?

Chris Yeo: Yeah, I think. I think God is such God is so faithful and so patient and. And he has such an amazing plan for everyone and for myself. My reflection on this is that it seems like He has been so bending the arc of my life slowly but surely towards serving him more and more over the years. And it feels like through this is this is done through my through my career work. That God has been refining and nudging me over the years and what I've learned through the years. This is maybe just to two things I want to talk about. First, this is this topic of identity in Christ in Christ alone and first and foremost, and to really be intentional and that. And for me that that is that is that is all about. Making sure that your identity in Christ is known to everyone that you work with at work. I'll talk more about that later. I think the second thing I've learned is that. What does really serving and loving your neighbor mean at work? And I have learned these two things over time is this I'll talk a bit about Grab where we're all set and how I've been applying that at DOKU. At grab of course. I think a lot of a lot what I learned is is true. Observing how perhaps more mature Christian leaders have been applying those lessons. Of course at grab Anthony is such an intentional Christian and thus talking about my Christian identity at work with Anthony and all the leaders there was almost expected in the natural right from the first from an interview of him. And then it is actualy carried on in all my interactions with my other colleagues at grab, my peers and my team. And because the mission of grab to drive Southeast Asia forward and this culture is so aligned with what we expect and feel comfortable with in terms of Christian values. So it seemed very natural. And bringing that experience with me. Now, at DOKU which I'm leading. On the topic of identity, for example. You know, DOKU is is an Indonesian born and raised company there, 14 years old. The cofounders are still there. They are Muslim. The company is is, of course, Indonesian, which means everyone. Most most folks are Muslim there. One of the things I really was really thinking about is, you know, how do I do my first townhall as CEO? Should I talk about my faith as a Christian and what it meant to me on day one? With the two co-founders standing beside me. So I prayed about that. And I did. I said, here is who I am. I'm a Christian, and this is why I'll be doing things in a certain way. And this is what my aspirations are for the company. And and I left it at that and and after a townhall of all sorts of like trying to get feedback about it. And and lo and behold, it turns out there are a couple of Christians in the company. And they did after they said to me, that's that's that's really good. And, you know, I'm a Christian, you know, and this other person and there's finance Department and he's a Catholic and things like that. So so I think I think that's one of the things it goes back,the identity it's so important. And today, you know, if you start my office, the first thing you see is it's a this is, you know, a Bible verse from Psalm the first thing you see. The second thing you see is a picture of my family, my wife, my kids. So that everyone walks in the office knows that this is what it means. What's important to me is God, this my family, and then this work. So. So that's how. Yeah, yeah, that's.

Wen Li Lim: That's amazing. Actually, it reminds me of a just a couple of weeks ago the Faith Driven had the conference, the watch party, which I saw you there Chris, on the FDI the Faith Driven Investor day and I think it was a Faith Driven Entrepreneur day that the CEO of Intel so global CEO Intel spoke about exactly what you were talking about. And I think that's really encouraging for business leaders, whether you are an entrepreneur or CEO, I remember the segment was about him talking about bringing his whole self, which his faith, his values, everything in and being open about it. And so he started the first Christian fellowship in Intel like 30 years ago when he was starting out. And he's been at the company for a long time and now he's at the top. But he's about being the leader. He is open and he's full, so that then it makes a safe space for other people to also be that way. Exactly who they are not having to hide. One, you know, parts of you, whether it's your values, your beliefs and all that. And so actually what you've done actually on the first day is actually signal and in a way make it really safe for people to come to work being there, full being. And that's like a really big topic in in, in corporates at the moment. I mean [......]. But actually it's starting with the leadership and making people feel comfortable being their authentic self. So I really yeah, I mean, I could imagine, like you're thinking, what should I do in this environment? But you've actually created a very safe space and I can see that in the future. People feel safe to be able to talk to anyone and be themselves anyway. So if anyone, I hope they, Faith Driven do release that video because I think it's really impactful living in a region where there's multi-faith, you know, and people of all different walks of life and being in unity and being and loving each other is really important in the days of where, you know, there's so many fragments of society. Yeah. And but yeah, thank you for sharing in good on you for what you're doing at DOKU.

Chris Yeo: Absolutely

Pastor Benny Ho: Chris is so inspiring for me to hear that it is about your identity in Christ and your desire to serve. That actually drives what you are doing today. And so I thought this might be a good time for us to jump into your origin story when it comes to a digital missions venture. I understand that you actually impacted by seeing the work of the DMV 60 another digital start up that was that you feel led to reach out to and actually begin to join into the network. Maybe you can tell us a bit more about that, your origin story.

Chris Yeo: Sure. Would love to. I think I think as I think about it, something which I always tell my children and also young tech founders, of course God has unique plan for each of you and just be patient to keep your heart, your eyes and your ears open because God speaks to each of us in so many different ways, so many different form factors. And for me, that that came in well two and a half years ago. I remember it was in December 2020, it was raining. I was just reading this. I was just reflecting cause Christmas coming. And I was reading his article on Salt and Light, which is a great Christian publication based on Singapore, everyone should read it and and had this article, read this article about a fellow brother named SC and he has started a co-working space for Christian entrepreneurs and he was basically using a small church building which was no longer used. And the reason he wanted to do that was to promote this idea of mintech, right mintech m-i-n-t-e-c-h which is just ministry tech. And you're saying like, you know, we've got fintech every take on health tech, you've got all sorts of tech. But where is ministry tech or church tech right? I thought, yes, where is church tech? Because if there's anything that tech is good at, it's about scaling ideas, businesses and concepts. Right. And I felt like. That's really interesting. And at that point of time, I was running Grab Ventures and we're selling to a whole investment and incubator arm for for for grab. And, and so I just call call SC and say you know you know what what what are you what are you doing and certain thing I could do to help you Right. And, and after that you know that's where we, we then started DM ventures separately. And yeah. And the reason I say about the plan, looking by the plan is that. It seemed like God had been preparing me for for for that or for DMV in some sense or DM ventures, because I knew exactly like one thing to be done. We talk about trend grooming, tech [...] growing, a tech ecosystem, the need for capital, how you raise that, the need for investors and how you nurture them, the ecosystem. So I had been doing that for many parts of my career and I thought like. There is no stronger signal for me to really start doing something. And serving God more so. So that's really the origin origin story of DM ventures.

Pastor Benny Ho: That is amazing now tell us a bit more about the vision and the structure of DMV.

Chris Yeo: Sure for our vision is to build a redemptive tech ecosystem flourishing across Southeast Asia. And how we do this is by by being both an accelerator and a capital provider. And by doing this, we build up a redemptive tech system. And for us, that comprises of founders. Funders, mentors and partners. And what we hope to achieve is to really journey with 100 Christian tech founders over the next ten years. And the way we do this is that we've got essential essentially like two main products, right? Our first product is DM venture Labs, which is our accelerator program, and this is really a program does design and close partnership with Praxis for both design and content, and participants of [...] go through a three month program which really consists of a two day to night weekend, a once per month. Right. And it's really like a mini church camp that they go through, early in the morning itself with worship, devotion, and then this heavy morning content, reflection, sharing and same thing in the afternoon so at the end of day. You feel really tired, but hopefully you're spiritually full and you're you're fed in your belly as well. So so that's that's DMV. Labs, we're now the second cohort. MM. And then the other product that we have is DM Ventures investments and that's an investment arm where we typically invest in Pre-seed stage or seed stage Christian tech founders. So that's what we do at DM Ventures.

Pastor Benny Ho: Mm hmm. There are a lot of young people. They're very interested in getting into start ups and all that. So if someone like this were to want to participate in what DMV's doing, how do they get into this? Do they apply for it? Do they write to you? What's the process?

Chris Yeo: Yeah, we run the, for labs we run it, unfortunately, now only once per year. Of course, we are self capacity constrained. We are actually running our second cohort now they consist of nine startups, seven from Singapore, two from Indonesia, one from the Philippines. But we accept applications year round, but the next the next cohort will likely start in Q3 next year and for an investment side same thing, right? We invite participants, we invite the potential investors all year round as well. So anyone interested in that, please visit us at Digital Mission Ventures dot com. I'll be happy to respond to you.

Pastor Benny Ho: Mm hmm. It's interesting you mentioned Praxis lab, which is actually a partner both in FDI as well as even in our church in Perth. We actually work with Praxis Lab. So they, they like to use terms like redemptive entrepreneurship, redemptive business. That's actually very interesting to me. And I also noticed in the article in Salt and Light that there was a statement that was made and I really love for you to unpack that. And it's very interesting. The statement goes like this. Redemptive businesses are those that go beyond being ethical to being sacrificial. And this is a very interesting statement. Would you unpack that a little bit for us?

Chris Yeo: Sure. So sort of redemptive framework is, of course, from from Praxis Labs. And the reason we talk about it is that when when when I and SC were first starting DMventures, of course, the first thing we look for is what's the right theology and framework to surround us. And this that that also resonates with our target audience, right? And for us, it's a really specific. A group of brothers and sisters they were targeting. And that's the Christian tech founder. And there's a lot of really good literature on faith and work, which really talks about how faith and work applies to you as an employee. But faith and work [....] sound content that addresses the topic of how you apply faith and work. So thoughtful Christian founder especially in tech is is very rare and Praxis is the one where when we first saw it, we said, Yeah, this is it. Our founders will definitely understand it. So it's really a God sent framework. It helped us to make sense of what to strive for as tech founders we're running a business in the fallen and messy world. And with that framework basically can be simplified in just three ways to solve, interact and live and run your business. That's the exploitative, versus the ethical and versus the redemptive right. And the exploitative is all about, you know, using the world for your personal benefit or your company's benefit is I win, you lose, right? Whereas so that's exploitative. But there's a tension always because of the exploitative versus the ethical, and all of us strive to operate an ethical and ethical way, talks about that's co-operate, let's get a win win, commercially beneficial outcome. Let me try to help the world through CSR. So that's the ethical world. But we believe that as Christian tech founders, we are called to do even more. We need to strive to go beyond the ethical towards the redemptive. And the difference is nuance, but very important for for us, the redemptive talks about. What would it look like if you really not just want to help the world, but really want to love the world? And if that is manifested in business, it means that, you know, sometimes I lose or I gain less, right? I lose in this. But we win. We win as industry, as a partnership, as a sector. And it's difficult. It's a pendulum, right? There's a pendulum between the exploitative, the ethical and the redemptive. But we see that, you know, why is this important is that whenever there's brokenness, whenever there's suffering, those who are in that situation, in their situation, they don't have the authority to free themselves of that situation. it requires someone else to sacrifice. For that redemption to take place requires someone to take a risk, to take the first step for redemption to happen. And we believe that we are called to do so because Jesus did that first for us, of course, on the cross, He commanded us to love our neighbor. And that's why we must respond and obey and to bring about redemption, to redeem yourself, change culture through our business ventures. That's what redemption is. And we believe that with such brokenness in the world comes up against humble, high capacity, redemptive and true openness and powered by God's work. Amazing things happen. Mountains move, redemption at scale happens. And that's what we're looking for.

Pastor Benny Ho: But wouldn't that also create a tension between profitability and people and what you're hoping to do? How does that work itself out in DMV?

Chris Yeo: Yes. So so I think the the mental model here is that it is never an or condition. You never talk about profits or redemptive or kingdom impact. It is always and it is how do I achieve sustainability and kingdom impact or redemptive impact? So even for us, when we look at investments, it must be it must deliver ROI, but it is redemptive impact first and then IRR or ROI. But what we sacrifice is we are not looking for super high returns. What we are willing to sacrifice some of that and be a bit more patient in order to deliver redemptive impact. So it's always a spectrum that we're looking at. Yeah.

Wen Li Lim: I am an example comes to mind and actually, Chris, I'll ask you for your examples, but how does this look like? Have you seen examples of that? Just a caveat, this is a two hand story, so it wasn't direct, but it's actually from Malaysia where we just run. So supposedly, I mean there is a guy out in KL, making light sabers and so customized and they like in the thousands of dollars and supposedly the orders are insane because you can customize like the sound and when he hit something I'm not a Star Wars fan but I hear that it's it's gone kind of bonkers in a way, like people are really ordering from all over the world. So what I did hear from a friend who went to visit his work and, you know, the demo and all that. There was a point where the sales are so high that the employees had to start working a lot of hours and it was getting very stressful. And what this entrepreneur did and he's he's a believer. And really, I would say from what I hear, really faith driven, he shut the website down. He just stopped taking orders. And that's super, super radical in a way that he put his employees welfare above profits. He's like, the reason I started this wasn't to make just money, like I am responsible for the well-being of my employees. And so he just took it off line and he just stopped taking orders. I mean, most businesses, when PB, you're talking about, you know, how does that balance between profit and then I love how, Chris, you talk about, well, actually sustainability. You know, we're not talking about profits that are like super, super high at the cost of actually people and his employees that he he stewarding and in his organization to love. And so this was one example that I always remember because I'm like, wow, no kind of Asian businessperson would ever do that. You know, they are like let's getting the order is, you know, let's keep the shop open, you know, as long as business is there it doesn't matter. You know, we, you know, profits over people. But, Chris, do you have like an example that or examples that you've seen through DMV or in the interactions you've had with Christian tech founders in this area?

Chris Yeo: Sure. I'll talk about maybe talk two or three examples. I've never seen. I think maybe one is is is a company from Indonesia called Go campus. Go Kampus Founder is Nathanael and they they so have a vision of of you know Indonesia where anyone can really improved their lives through continuous learning, upgrading. And the prominent trying to solve is that especially for the tier two and three cities, if you're on the lower, do you know the lower mass market? You just cannot have access and can afford the right certifications there really help you in your career. For example, an AWS certificate. All right. So those simple things, do you know these things like two or three month courses are really important but can really change the trajectory of your career. And so that's what they're trying to build in Jakarta. And and so far I've seen them do is that they started recently on this track and they're on track to really start impacting, I think, 50,000 users by the end of this year. And they're targeting to impact 1 million learners by the middle of next year. And I think they're such, such great, intentional and thoughtful leaders. I was recently talking to them and you know, in the tech industry recently, there's a bunch of layoffs and we were just talking about. How best to do their own lay off exercise in a very intentional and in the high grace manner. So so there is go kampus and I want to talk about which [....] you actually, but I really love what Eric from Fixturegram is doing and he actually went through FDE, if I'm not mistaken Wen, is that Eric is is. It's a really interesting he's trying to solve the problem of corruption in the bulk shipping agency industry. And and and first thing I want to talk about Eric is like what has redemptive impact got to do with shipping. And there you go. The redemptive impact is this corruption, this endemic in this specific sector. And the reason for that is the lack of data transparency and the sort of the solution for that is tech. Right. And so this what Eric is doing and he is going above and beyond that. He's saying, how else can I use all my assets to serve God? And saying the other assets I have is I've got I employ people, How can I employ tent makers into my organization because I operate you know, my my business actually is near to sea ports. Right. Which are, you know, in many places. So how can I sort of employed these tent makers into my organization and let me go even beyond that, how can I use my physical space to bless my community? How can I host churches or ministries or during Sunday's when my space unused? So so Eric's a great example of of having deep thought about how to create redemptive and kingdom impact in what he's doing. And the more I talk with and uncover these these entrepreneurs is like searching for it, it's like searching for Golden Nugget, sometimes.

Wen Li Lim: A needle in a haystack.

Chris Yeo: Yeah, exactly. A very big haystack. And you are so encouraged and see like God is at work here, moving the hearts of these founders and working through them in so many different and diverse ways.

Wen Li Lim: And I've actually sat in some sessions before in Cohort one. And I remember I think I was about redemptive marketing or branding. I think you have a session on that. And so I think we've had examples on a really big scale, right, of like the entire business model and how that can be redemptive. But on something like so you have different modules in the program. And on a module like redemptive marketing and, and branding, I would love for you to just unpack just that piece because I think what I always see and I think about businesses, right? I mean, even how you advertise, I think, you know, is that honest? Is it truthful? And you know, how do you do that and balance the aspirational versus the reality? But also just things like how they in Asia, a lot of people have a lot of fear and anxiety, right? So if you actually market to prey on that, of course you're going to do well. Of course you're going to get the sales right. You're actually tapping into somebody's fear and you're yeah, you're going to make sales because you're you're kind of targeting that. Can you just kind of explain that kind of module as like a teaser in a way of what people can learn in like a nitty gritty when they come through DMV labs?

Chris Yeo: Yeah. So. So some branding is so important. It again ties back to especially when [....] tech and the potential for tech companies. They're not they're not called big tech. So the the brand image of of that company is this huge. And it's this the lowest hanging fruit for any any branding or advertising campaigns is to really want, as you put it, to exploit human natural weaknesses. Right. Our impulse buying behavior, our desire to get a good deal. To compare to to basically cast bad stuff and [....] bad about your competitor. The redemptive way to think about it is how do we appeal to the. Better side of each of us. Right. How do we appeal to the better side of wanting to get your target customers to aspire to something better? Right. And true that then we we believe that the cultural narrative of that particular space can be rewritten. Right. But of course, it's not easy to do that. And that's why, you know the entire program is, is three months. And that's why we encourage you to apply and attend. You know, DMV labs, if you get if you have the time to do so.

Pastor Benny Ho: Mm hmm. Well, Chris, going into the bigger canvas of investing, say, in Southeast Asia, there could be some of our listeners who may be a little bit hesitant about investing in certain in certain countries like Indonesia, Singapore or Philippines. And what would you say to these people?

Chris Yeo: Well, I think I think it's I mean, if you talk about, you know, Southeast Asia, I mean, I talked about before 600 million people. You know, the average age fun fact is 30 years old. Why are we talking about move offers penetration, massive macro tailwinds. So just from a commercial investment point of view, you know, it's it's almost a no brainer as a long term growth story. The macroeconomics are there. If you are if you are afraid or if you're concerned, you know, please come and visit us. I'll be happy to host you. So so I think I think really No, no, no concerns about. About investing into Southeast Asia. But maybe, maybe one thing to always think about is, is is of course, you need to be you need to be clear about why, why you're investing and what you're looking for. So, for example, for the DMV, we look for three things. One is we look for spiritually mature Christians who seeking to embodied the gospel through a redemptive venture. Second, we look for those who are humble and teachable, but also have a passion for excellence. And a third thing we look for is those who run innovative, early stage, scalable tech ventures. So so I think is very clear about the investment thesis, right? You know, you shouldn't fear about any concerns.

Wen Li Lim: Though. I'm sure they are. I mean, like the issues, right? Kind of like how did your property, all of that? I think I'm with DMV labs and even other Faith Driven Investor that I've come across. Sorry not DM, DM Ventures and other Faith Driven Investor is more the impact of what they can do with your money. So, I mean, a lot of people have a real heart for the neighboring countries around Singapore. And actually sometimes they're like, Oh, I'm not really interested in investing into Singaporean companies in a way because they I mean, the ecosystem and all of that is really well set up. But for those, you know, in the neighboring countries and they have on their heart to tackle issues like poverty, access to education, health care, the amount of impact and and reach that they can get by investing in these companies is what they're after. So it's not just the profitability that most people wanting from the returns, but the returns are really spiritual, emotional, you know, uplifting people at the same time of hopefully generating some financial returns, if not good financial returns. So I think it's just to encourage I think, you know, most people, especially being Asians, are very risk averse. But I think we're starting to see more, especially the people that I come across with in the Faith Driven Investor network who are really thinking about, you know, and being obedient to yeah, to could put their money into places that to see kingdom impact and not be so fearful of losing it, just walking in obedience. What I want to do next, we're coming up to the end is we do a round called rapid fire. And so these I just really quick question. So Chris, I'm just going to send you a question if you can answer in 10 seconds or less, one or two sentences. That would be great. And and then after that will I'll pass it over to PB to close out each episode we'd like to close out with. Yeah. What is God speaking to you specifically in a verse and then we'll close the session this podcast episode. So the first question, so you've looked in lots of lots of places, you know, flying out in and out of Indonesia. If you had to retire today and have no limitation in terms of money, family responsibilities, your triplets, your five kids, where would you move to and why?

Chris Yeo: Yeah, well, I can never know my family, but actually probably Seattle, some of the best skiing and great schools, tech industry and amazing coffee. Why would anybody want. Right.

Wen Li Lim: And I know you were just in KL just yesterday. Well, who do you think has the best food? Malaysia or Singapore.

Chris Yeo: Singapore. That's a easy one.

Wen Li Lim: Okay, hold on a minute.

Pastor Benny Ho: Controversy.

Wen Li Lim: You know that that little river, that border, that Singapore and Malaysia, there's always that. Yeah. The rivalry that. What excites you about the current state of business and technology in Asia right now?

Chris Yeo: I think the most exciting thing is the mental model that parents are now saying, you know, what is okay for you to be a startup founder instead of where I remember when my parents are always asking me to. I hope they're not listening to the engineer, a lawyer, a doctor. And that's why, you know, I have engineering degree, but now I'm in tech. So, yeah, it's it's not really widely accepted. Yeah.

Wen Li Lim: I hope they do. Listen, are parents not like reading these articles about their kids and listening to their children and hello auntie, hello uncle. Ok. What do you what do you wish more entrepreneurs knew about the funding process?

Chris Yeo: Fund. Fundraising. Never stop fundraising. Always be fundraising. Especially when you don't need to take the funds and that's when it's the easiest with the least pressure.

Wen Li Lim: Mhm. Yeah. That's very wise. What do you wish more investors knew about tech innovations coming out of Southeast Asia right now?

Chris Yeo: The tech innovations here are really fit for market. And what I mean is, is that you won't find, like many deep tech companies over in Southeast Asia, because the problems are really different and sometimes quite basic. It may be just like a distribution problem, right? And this enabled through the mobile phone. So the tech here is fit for purpose. They can scale, but it works.

Wen Li Lim: Mm. And lastly for me is how can we be praying for you and digital Mission Ventures?

Chris Yeo: Yes. Thank you so much for asking that. I think our biggest problem is, is just the discovery of more Christian tech founders. The funnel is really, really narrow and there's a discovery problem as well, i.e. like it's very hard to identify which tech founder is a Christian. So so we really need more to be coming our way.

Pastor Benny Ho: You know, Chris, we like to close off each episode by hearing what God is teaching you right now. So it'll be great. If you could share with us something that the Lord may be speaking to you during the season. A Scripture that means a lot to you during this time. Would you like to share that with us?

Chris Yeo: Yeah. This is something I was actually sharing this at at DMV labs last month. But basically, Ruth, I think Ruth, which is such an amazing book Ruth, I think 1:16, 16b. Ruth really says, where you go, I will go and your God is my God. And of course, the context was with Naomi, who's a widow who has lost two sons at a start of the story, But the end of story. Her stories are redeemed. Her story is now a grandmother of a son whose line would eventually led to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And that's a great story about the power of redemption in action and how Ruth was the one who really took the first step and she was the one who made a risk in coming as a Moabite going into Israeli land. And she knew how to do that. First was something broken, which is Naomi's life to happen. So, so. So this story, which I feel really fits into what what DM Ventures is trying to do with the tech ecosystem.

Pastor Benny Ho: Amen, may we truly carry this redemptive narrative into the business world. Amen.